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| Is there any way to ensure that a publisher is fairly and accurately reporting book sales to the author, and paying proper royalties? | |
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| Well, if you have realistic doubts, you can always have the publisher audited. You have the right to do this, though it can be expensive, and nearly always turns up nothing.
Royalties are not as simple as "You sell a book, and we give you a percentage." The biggest confusion comes from royalties held against returns. There just isn't any simple way of dealing with returns until you find out the exact numbers, so publishers always hold a percentage of royalties until teh final return numbers are in. This doesn't cost the writer anything, but can delay some money. This is better, however, than receiving money, only to learn you didn't really have it coming.
When where, and how a book is sold also afefcts royalties. | |
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| Thanks. Two questions:
-- Who is ensuring that the publisher is accurately tracking sales and paying proper royalties?
-- If a publisher is three months behind in paying royalties, what are the options? | |
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| PinkLips&Fingertips - 2009-11-03 10:50 AM Thanks. Two questions: -- Who is ensuring that the publisher is accurately tracking sales and paying proper royalties? -- If a publisher is three months behind in paying royalties, what are the options? 1. Basically, the same place that tries to ensure that every business in the country is tracking sales and paying out whatever is owed. The Internal Revenue Service. 2. That depends. What reason does the publisher give for being three months behind? Royalty dates can change for a number of reasons. It also depends on who the publisher is. There are a lot of small, fly-by-night publishers out there, and good luck on getting anything from them on time, or at all. | |
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What reason does the publisher give for being three months behind? Royalty dates can change for a number of reasons.
The offficial explanation is that their royalty process is a very manual, time-consuming process. It takes the accounting department a lot of time to take the sales info (4 large files) it gets from the distributor, and calculate the royalties for thousands of authors. Apparently, there are a couple of new people who had not done the calculations in the past, and "because it's such a detailed process with so many steps, they would double and triple check everything to guarantee accuracy."
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| Does anybody think this company might be in financial trouble and is stalling? Or is it short-staffed? Or is this just a case of incompetence? | |
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| There's no way of knowing. Have you asked them for the cause of the delay? | |
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| Jamesaritchie - 2009-11-09 10:32 AM
There's no way of knowing. Have you asked them for the cause of the delay?
Just what I wrote earlier to answer your question about why the royalties are three months behind:
The offficial explanation is that their royalty process is a very manual, time-consuming process. It takes the accounting department a lot of time to take the sales info (4 large files) it gets from the distributor, and calculate the royalties for thousands of authors. Apparently, there are a couple of new people who had not done the calculations in the past, and "because it's such a detailed process with so many steps, they would double and triple check everything to guarantee accuracy."
Seems like a pretty lame explanation to me.
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| Seems prettty lame to me, too, but it could be the truth. Still, true or not, it's certainly poor busines practice. They should, at the very least, be able to give you an exact date for when you can expect royalties. | |
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| Jamesaritchie - 2009-11-10 8:38 AM
Seems prettty lame to me, too, but it could be the truth. Still, true or not, it's certainly poor busines practice. They should, at the very least, be able to give you an exact date for when you can expect royalties.
Well, the date has changed many times. They originally awarded royalties four times a year, and then switched this year to twice a year. So they have not yet paid royalties in 2009. The first report was supposed to arrive mid-August, with payment within 30 days. Payment is now almost three months late. This is not a "fly-by-night" publisher. It has thousands of authors.
I did a search and quickly found a site where authors are banding together for a class-action lawsuit. But a former employee in the assistant attorney general's office made a post suggesting that in a class-action suit, it drags on for years and the company usually gets off without paying much, if anything, and the only ones who profit are the attorneys. He suggested contacting the Attorney General's office in Florida (the publisher's home state) and filing a complaint for consumer fraud. I contacted the Attorney General and was told that it does not deal with fraud like this -- only mortgage fraud and things like that. I was referred to the Federal Trade Commission, where they filed a complaint but said it will take multiple complaints to force any action.
Any other thoughts about what to do? | |
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Location: San Diego, California | It would help if you just tell us the name of the publisher. I can't even find anything on your website about how to buy your book. Is this a real publisher (traditional) or a pass-through POD business? Is the book listed anywhere for sale?
Have you contacted the BBB and CofC in the area where this publisher is located? You might want to file complaints and ask their advice.
I once sued a publisher in Florida in small claims court and won my case. Have you considered this approach? | |
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| I agree, it would help greatly to know the name of the publishers. Having thousands of writers does not automatically mean a publisher is legitimate. It's pretty much impossible to amke any real judgment withjout knowing the name of the publisher.
It would also help any new writers who might want to sell a book to this publisher. | |
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| Georganna - 2009-11-17 5:48 PM
It would help if you just tell us the name of the publisher. I can't even find anything on your website about how to buy your book. Is this a real publisher (traditional) or a pass-through POD business? Is the book listed anywhere for sale?
Xulon is the publisher. I haven't been able to find anything on the Internet that would suggest the parent company, Salem Communications, is in financial difficulty. It's a massive company that includes a publishing arm and 100 radio stations, including stations in 23 of the top 25 markets. I can't believe they would allow Xulon to engage in reprehensible behavior regarding royalties.
Georganna, the book's Web site is not a sales mechanism. It's simply there to provide more information about the book. I don't have the money to make it any more than it is. But you can buy the book anywhere -- amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, target.com, Google Books, etc. -- even on overseas Web sites. It's being stocked in a lot of Christian book stores in Texas, including LifeWay.
Edited by PinkLips&Fingertips 2009-11-18 4:56 PM
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| Rick - As you shared with us before your book came out, Xulon is a self-publishing/print on demand outfit. Not that that gives them the right to renege on their business obligations, but as soon as you start Googling "Xulon Press," "Xulon Press Compaints" and "Xulon Press Scam" pop up as top Google searches/threads, with many of those posts going back a number of years, long before you decided to affiliate with them. I realize that doesn't do you any good now - and I really hope that you can find a legal remedy to your grievances - but it's a lesson that others here should pay attention to as they opine on why self-publishing is the way to go. Good luck! | |
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it's a lesson that others here should pay attention to as they opine on why self-publishing is the way to go. Good luck!
I never opined on why "self-publishing is the way to go." What author wouldn't want to use a traditional publisher? Fact is, in this economic environment, it's very difficult to get a contract with a traditional publisher unless the author has a "platform." So for those authors who passionately believe in their story, self-publishing is the ONLY way to go.
But why continually return to this theme? Self-publishing isn't the problem. Xulon, in this case, is the problem. But I'm not sure it's a "scam" or anything insidious. They might just be having staff-related issues, although I find all of their excuses to be lame. But if I don't get paid royalties soon, then I have to develop another plan. That's why I created this thread. Part of that plan would involve reporting Xulon to authorities who might be able to do something about it.
The other part would be possibly re-publishing the book under another entity so Xulon can't continue to profit off of my book's sales. I've read a few authors who have used amazon. Does anybody know how an author re-publishes? How do I sever ties with Xulon and go with someone else? Is that advisable? Is there a downside? | |
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| PinkLips&Fingertips - 2009-11-18 8:04 PM it's a lesson that others here should pay attention to as they opine on why self-publishing is the way to go. Good luck! I never opined on why "self-publishing is the way to go." What author wouldn't want to use a traditional publisher? Fact is, in this economic environment, it's very difficult to get a contract with a traditional publisher unless the author has a "platform." So for those authors who passionately believe in their story, self-publishing is the ONLY way to go. But why continually return to this theme? Self-publishing isn't the problem. Xulon, in this case, is the problem. But I'm not sure it's a "scam" or anything insidious. They might just be having staff-related issues, although I find all of their excuses to be lame. But if I don't get paid royalties soon, then I have to develop another plan. That's why I created this thread. Part of that plan would involve reporting Xulon to authorities who might be able to do something about it. The other part would be possibly re-publishing the book under another entity so Xulon can't continue to profit off of my book's sales. I've read a few authors who have used amazon. Does anybody know how an author re-publishes? How do I sever ties with Xulon and go with someone else? Is that advisable? Is there a downside? Now, Rick, I distinctly remember you being, well, dismissive of those of us who cautioned you against self-publishing in the first place. You're correct: it's "very difficult to get a contract with a traditional publisher" and, if you can't, and you decide to self-publish, then I think these are the chances you take and you shouldn't be surprised when such things happen. The alternative, of course, would have been to continue to look for an agent and commerical publisher, with the perspective that if you've written a commerically viable book, you'll eventually find an agent/commerical publisher. (Implicit in that: if you can't make it happen that way, then maybe it's not to be.) I have absolutely nothing against self publishing, but when you decide to go that route, I think you need to go into it with the understanding that it will cost you money, not make you money, and that seems to be exactly the situation you're in. That's not to say that some self-published books aren't financially successful (Lord knows that the self-publishing industry spends a bundle reminding us that "What Color is Your Parachute?" and "The Shack" were indeed originally self published). At the same time, I've met a lot - a whole lot - of self published authors, and all of them - every last one - have lost money on their books; I've yet to meet a single commerically published author who has lost money. I wish you all of the luck in the world going forward with your book, although I don't know that going down the road with another POD outfit will be any better, and, if it isn't, I don't know who to blame. Is it too late to retrench, re-appraise, (perhaps) rewrite, and see if you have a book that can, in fact, be brought to market through a commerial publisher? | |
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Location: San Diego, California | I found nothing to indicate Xulon is a scam.
It appears that your book has been available only a few months, so it is strange to see complaints about royalty payments so soon. How could your publisher be "three months behind" when the book came out only June 2? How can you be sure enough copies have sold to warrant a royalty payment?
You have a business relationship with this press. Presumably you have a contract with them. You need to examine all the details of your contract (or get a publishing attorney to do so) to determine if and how you can break it. If Xulon owns the ISBN, you'll need to get a new one.
I hope you have the files for your book. That would make it much easier to send to Amazon's CreateSpace.com to reissue your book. You could also go the true self-publishing route and deal directly with LightningSource printer (does most of this type of on demand printing).
Finally, I would be remiss if I did not point out that self-publishing nonfiction can be rewarding if it is part of a solid, well thought out business plan. A self-published nonfiction book does not necessarily need to turn a profit for the author to profit from its existence. Some publish to enhance their standing or reputation and some do it to promote a cause or use the book in conjunction with teaching classes or holding seminars. There are many good reasons to SP a nonfiction book and they are all for business, not emotional reasons. | |
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| Geo -
Just for the record, I never said that Xulon was a "scam." I only pointed out that when you Google "Xulon Press," the top three searches that pop up are: "Xulon Press," "Xulon Press Complaints," and "Xulon Press Scam" (in that order). When you click on "Xulon Press Scam," one of the links there is to this site: http://www.topix.com/forum/business/radio/TFFK5QMV3PR4CFSLA, a thread in which a lot of folks seem to be telling stories similar to Rick's experience with Xulon. | |
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| I wouldn't say Xulon is a scam. A scam means someone is lying about the services provided. But Xulon is not, in any way,a press you can depend on for anything, including royalties because there usually won't be enough to warrant the company paying them out for a considerable length of time. Such stories are common with Xulon, ethical complaints against them are unnumerable, and so are the excuses they always seem to have for not paying. But this is true of most self-publishing companies.
You can say what you like about self-publishing, but a book that doesn't turn a profit is always, without exception, a book that isn't being read by enough people to matter, and that's a bad business plan. Anything good coming from self-publishing is about as likely as hitting the lottery. Even most of the now famous books that were originally self-published only made a splash after a commercial publisher picked them up.
It is difficult to find a commercial pubisher, but this is because commercial publishers deal in quality, or in books that people actually want to buy, if you prefer that distinction. Self-pubishers deal with anything and everything put on paper, even when there's a total lack of quality, and like it or not, when you self-publish, you've put yourself in the company of crap. Even if your book is great, it will be judged largely by the company it keeps.
Almost as bad, no one out there needs self-published books. There are hundreds of thousands of commercially published books on every conceivable subkject, and of every conceivable type, all of which have gone through some sort of vetting process, and all of which are readily available, usually for less money than self-published books.
A self-pubishing company that has thousands of books is no better, no more reliable, no more honest, and usually less so, than a self-publishing company that releases nine books per year. The only reason they have thousands of books is because they publish anything and everything that comes in. Scribble all over four hundred pages of paper, and they'll publish that, as well.
If done right, if done well, true self-publishing fo the type Georganna mentions, can be a good place for niche nonfiction with a market small enough that commercial publishers won't take it, but even then you'll have to sell the book just like you were selling encyclopedias door to door. You have to spend a large part of every day hustluing, traveling, going all over the place, to every possible location where your book might sell, and even then you'll be lucky to break even, though every great once in a while a niche nonfiction book does pretty well, if the writer can travel and hustle enough.
Self-publishing, is, pretty much by definition, a scam. It's a world full of lies, a world where they'll tell you anything to get you money. . .do you have any idea how many self-publishing companies draw people in with the line, "Even John Grisham self-published his first book." Self-puboishing comapnies make money only by getting money from thousands of would-be writers, not by selling books, and this alone guarantees that darned few self-published books are going to be worth reading, or that you'll do anything but waste time and money by lways will.
The self-publishing world take syour money, eats your dreams, and somehow makes, makes writers come back for the same thing over and over.
If you absolutely must self-publish because you have a niche nonfiction book that you're willing to sell yourself by traveling, hustling, investing thousands of hours of time and a good bit of money, teh true self-publishing is the only way that really stands any chance at all of working. The ONLY way any self-published book, even a great one, is going to sell any copies at all is if you hustle your butt off, spend a bunch of money, and do a great deal of traveling, to make it happen.
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| Ultimate Cheapskate - 2009-11-18 7:31 PM
Now, Rick, I distinctly remember you being, well, dismissive of those of us who cautioned you against self-publishing in the first place. You're correct: it's "very difficult to get a contract with a traditional publisher" and, if you can't, and you decide to self-publish, then I think these are the chances you take and you shouldn't be surprised when such things happen. The alternative, of course, would have been to continue to look for an agent and commerical publisher, with the perspective that if you've written a commerically viable book, you'll eventually find an agent/commerical publisher. (Implicit in that: if you can't make it happen that way, then maybe it's not to be. ) I have absolutely nothing against self publishing, but when you decide to go that route, I think you need to go into it with the understanding that it will cost you money, not make you money, and that seems to be exactly the situation you're in.
I'm still not sure you understand. You may have been fortunate enough to get a traditional contract, but there are thousands out there who aren't. Doesn't mean their book is not worthy of being in print. And it certainly doesn't mean that "it's not to be." How long would you like us to beat our heads into a wall, looking for a traditional publisher who's willing to offer a contract? 5 years? 10 years? I encourage anybody who truly believes in their story to get it published. Good thing William Paul Young didn't listen to your advice. Good for him and good for readers of his book.
I never wrote this book intending to make money. But just because someone does self-publish, that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to get paid royalties. It's criminal not to pay royalties.
And when you say that every self-published you've ever known has "lost money on their books," how do you define that?
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It appears that your book has been available only a few months, so it is strange to see complaints about royalty payments so soon. How could your publisher be "three months behind" when the book came out only June 2? How can you be sure enough copies have sold to warrant a royalty payment?
I can be sure because they sent me a royalties statement in September. That statement was supposed to have arrived in early August, with payment in early September. So the payment is almost three months late. It's not just me. Others say they haven't received royalties in over two years, even though they have documented evidence that quantities of books were sold.
You have a business relationship with this press. Presumably you have a contract with them. You need to examine all the details of your contract (or get a publishing attorney to do so) to determine if and how you can break it. If Xulon owns the ISBN, you'll need to get a new one.
Xulon's contract states that we can "take your book to another publisher if you so desire. Just let us know in writing. The book manuscript will always remain your work and the original work will always remain in your name and ownership." I assume that means that I own the ISBN and that I wouldn't need a new one if I chose to re-publish. Your thoughts?
A self-published nonfiction book does not necessarily need to turn a profit for the author to profit from its existence. Some publish to enhance their standing or reputation and some do it to promote a cause or use the book in conjunction with teaching classes or holding seminars.
You are so right. I never published it to make money. I published it because I truly believe in the potential of Jeri Ivison Paholek's story to change lives. I believe the book shows how you can live a dynamic, vibrant, impactful life through any kind of suffering, whether it's physical, emotional or spiritual. And a lot of people agree. I am speaking to small groups, using her story in my theme of "Inspiration in a Time of Desperation." And I also have developed a study guide that is being used by small groups. I've had at least 75 people write to me after reading the book -- many of whom I've never even met. This book has tremendous value even if I never sold another copy.
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But Xulon is not, in any way,a press you can depend on for anything, including royalties because there usually won't be enough to warrant the company paying them out for a considerable length of time.
What do you mean? If an author meets the minimum, which I did by a longshot -- and that was just for three weeks of the six-month royalties period -- royalties not only warrant being paid, but have to be paid. And beyond that, I don't think this book is going to die quickly, given that I regularly sign at Kroger supermarkets and also have developed a study guide and a speaking tour to support both the book and guide. | |
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| PinkLips&Fingertips - 2009-11-19 5:21 PM Ultimate Cheapskate - 2009-11-18 7:31 PM Now, Rick, I distinctly remember you being, well, dismissive of those of us who cautioned you against self-publishing in the first place. You're correct: it's "very difficult to get a contract with a traditional publisher" and, if you can't, and you decide to self-publish, then I think these are the chances you take and you shouldn't be surprised when such things happen. The alternative, of course, would have been to continue to look for an agent and commerical publisher, with the perspective that if you've written a commerically viable book, you'll eventually find an agent/commerical publisher. (Implicit in that: if you can't make it happen that way, then maybe it's not to be. ) I have absolutely nothing against self publishing, but when you decide to go that route, I think you need to go into it with the understanding that it will cost you money, not make you money, and that seems to be exactly the situation you're in. I'm still not sure you understand. You may have been fortunate enough to get a traditional contract, but there are thousands out there who aren't. Doesn't mean their book is not worthy of being in print. And it certainly doesn't mean that "it's not to be." How long would you like us to beat our heads into a wall, looking for a traditional publisher who's willing to offer a contract? 5 years? 10 years? I encourage anybody who truly believes in their story to get it published. Good thing William Paul Young didn't listen to your advice. Good for him and good for readers of his book. I never wrote this book intending to make money. But just because someone does self-publish, that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to get paid royalties. It's criminal not to pay royalties. And when you say that every self-published you've ever known has "lost money on their books," how do you define that? Rick - I'm really not trying to upset you, but we see so many people come through here with unrealistic expectations about self publishing, and it sort of feeds on itself. Again, sure, absolutely, some self-published books are financially profitable and some go on to be best sellers. And, as Geo rightfully pointed out, there are many other perfectly valid reasons for self-publishing. What concerns me is the spreading of expectations -either inadvertently or on purpose - that "you'll" be successful self-publishing, despite the odds against it. I think you need to go into it with your eyes open, or else you have no one to blame but yourself. That means checking out PODs for customer complaints, etc. before you sign on. Yes, I agree that all businesses - self publishers included - have a legal obligation to honor their business obligations; that's why we have courts. But, in an earlier thread, you also complained about how difficult (more like impossible) it is to get your book into libraries. This isn't some one else's fault, this is just the way that the system works, and, before you decided to self published, you should have done the research to know that this would be an obsctacle. For crying out loud, I'm not suggesting that anyone "beat their heads against the wall" for anything, only take responsibility for the decisions they make. Oh, as for the "profitablity" standard you asked about, I'd define that as the author's out of pocket expenses for priniting, design, shipping, etc., including his/her out of pocket expenses for any promotion, book tours, advertising, etc. Of course, the hope is that authors will also receive at least SOME compensation for their time spent in actually writing and promoting the book, but that's not what I'm talking about when I say I've yet to actually meet a self published author who has "made money" on his/her book. Despite our differences of opinion, good luck, | |
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It is difficult to find a commercial pubisher, but this is because commercial publishers deal in quality, or in books that people actually want to buy, if you prefer that distinction. Self-pubishers deal with anything and everything put on paper, even when there's a total lack of quality, and like it or not, when you self-publish, you've put yourself in the company of crap.
I understand what you're saying. Many self-published books are written by wanna-be writers and are littered with mistakes. I would just ask that you read the book before you lump it into the pile of "crap." I have been a professional journalist for over 30 years, with over 10,000 published magazine and newspaper articles, along with contributions to Chicken Soup for the Soul books, and numerous national awards. This book is a professional product, including graphics from a professional graphic artist that are far better than most of what you'd find in a book from a traditional publisher. | |
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But, in an earlier thread, you also complained about how difficult (more like impossible) it is to get your book into libraries. This isn't some one else's fault, this is just the way that the system works, and, before you decided to self published, you should have done the research to know that this would be an obsctacle.
Complained? Jeff, you're brutal! I simply asked, "How do I place my book in libraries?" And after being advised at how difficult it was, I said that I would focus on local libraries. I appreciate all of your advice and posts, but c'mon, let's be fair here.
Edited by PinkLips&Fingertips 2009-11-19 6:05 PM
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